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SSJ Future Gohan vs SSJ Goku (Namek)
Topic Started: Apr 27 2014, 01:03 PM (1,541 Views)
kuartus4
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lunar2
Apr 29 2014, 04:12 AM
that said, we don't know how powerful the future androids actually are. we know they held back on gohan until they killed him, it's possible they were holding back on trunks, as well. especially since it doesn't make sense for the same machine to have different capabilities just because the timelines are different. the future androids should have been built from the same parts according to the same design, so they should have the same capabilities. i think trunks just underestimated them, and didn't realize they were toying with him for entertainment, the same way they did to gohan before they got bored with him.
Trunks says on several occasions that the future androids are weaker than the present ones. It would seem like a waste of ink by AT if that wasn't actually the case. And Future imperfect Cell's quote would seem to support this.

Chapter: 420 (DBZ 226), P2.3
Context: after Trunks tells Cell he’ll defeat him
Cell: “Trunks…All of your data has been scanned by the spy robot…With your power, you couldn’t possibly defeat No.17 or No.18,let alone me…”

It seems that Imperfect Cell is saying that he is stronger than the future androids. And this is a Cell which would have just recently finished his 24 year development, and so would not have had many(if any) human absorptions. Plus the population of earth in Trunks timeline was only in the tens of thousands.

We know the Imperfect Cell that arrived in the present timeline had to absorb way more than that to surpass the present timeline androids, whom he was weaker than pre absorbtions. So we get this chain, assuming Trunks timeline initial Imperfect Cell=Main timeline Initial Imperfect Cell.

Future Androids<Inperfect Cell(pre human absorbtions)<Present Androids
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AvatarReiko
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lunar2
Apr 30 2014, 01:07 AM
miguelnuva
Apr 29 2014, 08:40 PM
lunar2
Apr 29 2014, 01:42 PM
miguelnuva
Apr 29 2014, 04:37 AM
lunar2
Apr 29 2014, 04:12 AM
Yusuke Urameshi
Apr 28 2014, 08:02 PM
Future Trunks was actually stronger than Future Gohan (at the time of his death). I forgot the exact quote but he seems to be confident that he's stronger than the last Gohan he saw.

But yeah, Future Trunks (Post-3 Years of Training) is pretty much rivaling Future #17 and Future #18 to say he was able to take them on.
Chapter: Trunks: the Story, P14.4, P15.1-2
Trunks: “…I think I’m strong enough to beat the Androids now. We don’t have to go study them in the past!”
Future Bulma: “You’re too naïve. It’s true that you’ve gotten astoundingly strong, but have you forgotten how Gohan was killed 3 years ago? I don’t think you’re that amazingly different than Gohan back then…”

trunks thinks he can beat the androids that killed gohan. that means he's stronger than gohan. we don't know by how much, unless someone took the time to teach bulma to sense ki. not exactly a long shot, since it would be a useful skill to have in an apocalyptic setting. even if you couldn't sense the androids, you could sense the deaths of those they attack, giving you a head start to hide.

that said, we don't know how powerful the future androids actually are. we know they held back on gohan until they killed him, it's possible they were holding back on trunks, as well. especially since it doesn't make sense for the same machine to have different capabilities just because the timelines are different. the future androids should have been built from the same parts according to the same design, so they should have the same capabilities. i think trunks just underestimated them, and didn't realize they were toying with him for entertainment, the same way they did to gohan before they got bored with him.
There's no way The androids didn't use their full power against Android saga Trunks.
wait, there's no way characters with an established pattern of behavior continue to act according to that pattern? we know they like to toy with their prey, so how do we know that this one time, out of all times, they weren't?
17 used his full power on 1 armed Gohan. Trunks saga Trunks is about the same or stronger and Android saga Trunks is stronger then that. He should have seen 17 or 18's full power.
why? one armed gohan was still way less than half as powerful as #17. #17 didn't fight with full power because he had to, he did because he wanted to. he had gotten bored playing with gohan over and over again, and decided to teach him a lesson before he killed him. on the other hand, trunks has only canonically fought the future androids 3 times, so they probably never got bored with him before they died.
Well, they did get bored of him. In the anime Their last attack was intended to kill him but he got lucky and survived the blast. When he returns to the future after the Cell games 17 was surprised to see him and even stated the Trunks was tougher than he thought.
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kuartus4
Apr 30 2014, 08:30 AM
lunar2
Apr 29 2014, 04:12 AM
that said, we don't know how powerful the future androids actually are. we know they held back on gohan until they killed him, it's possible they were holding back on trunks, as well. especially since it doesn't make sense for the same machine to have different capabilities just because the timelines are different. the future androids should have been built from the same parts according to the same design, so they should have the same capabilities. i think trunks just underestimated them, and didn't realize they were toying with him for entertainment, the same way they did to gohan before they got bored with him.
Trunks says on several occasions that the future androids are weaker than the present ones. It would seem like a waste of ink by AT if that wasn't actually the case. And Future imperfect Cell's quote would seem to support this.

Chapter: 420 (DBZ 226), P2.3
Context: after Trunks tells Cell he’ll defeat him
Cell: “Trunks…All of your data has been scanned by the spy robot…With your power, you couldn’t possibly defeat No.17 or No.18,let alone me…”

It seems that Imperfect Cell is saying that he is stronger than the future androids. And this is a Cell which would have just recently finished his 24 year development, and so would not have had many(if any) human absorptions. Plus the population of earth in Trunks timeline was only in the tens of thousands.

We know the Imperfect Cell that arrived in the present timeline had to absorb way more than that to surpass the present timeline androids, whom he was weaker than pre absorbtions. So we get this chain, assuming Trunks timeline initial Imperfect Cell=Main timeline Initial Imperfect Cell.

Future Androids<Inperfect Cell(pre human absorbtions)<Present Androids
For all we know, the Cell that approached Trunks is equal in strength to the one that fought Piccolo/17/16.

Also, the Cell that traveled through time had to regress... perhaps requiring more human bio-extract to recover/increase his strength.



The fact that Cell knew how strong the androids were in the main timeline implies that all the androids, through all 4 mentioned/implied timelines were all equal (at least at creation).

To believe they all remain equal, is to believe that Trunks was being toyed with. This is the most simple and logical solution.

If you believe Present > Future, then you'd have to come up with a reason for the Future one's to lose strength, as they obviously started out the same. Then you have to worry about whether or not such a circumstance would effect the main timeline androids... though nothing of the sort is suggested. As much of a mess as that is, it is highly likely that Toriyama-sensei intended for this to be true. But whether or not that matters is up to you.
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lunar2
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kuartus4
Apr 30 2014, 08:30 AM
lunar2
Apr 29 2014, 04:12 AM
that said, we don't know how powerful the future androids actually are. we know they held back on gohan until they killed him, it's possible they were holding back on trunks, as well. especially since it doesn't make sense for the same machine to have different capabilities just because the timelines are different. the future androids should have been built from the same parts according to the same design, so they should have the same capabilities. i think trunks just underestimated them, and didn't realize they were toying with him for entertainment, the same way they did to gohan before they got bored with him.
Trunks says on several occasions that the future androids are weaker than the present ones. It would seem like a waste of ink by AT if that wasn't actually the case. And Future imperfect Cell's quote would seem to support this.

Chapter: 420 (DBZ 226), P2.3
Context: after Trunks tells Cell he’ll defeat him
Cell: “Trunks…All of your data has been scanned by the spy robot…With your power, you couldn’t possibly defeat No.17 or No.18,let alone me…”

It seems that Imperfect Cell is saying that he is stronger than the future androids. And this is a Cell which would have just recently finished his 24 year development, and so would not have had many(if any) human absorptions. Plus the population of earth in Trunks timeline was only in the tens of thousands.

We know the Imperfect Cell that arrived in the present timeline had to absorb way more than that to surpass the present timeline androids, whom he was weaker than pre absorbtions. So we get this chain, assuming Trunks timeline initial Imperfect Cell=Main timeline Initial Imperfect Cell.

Future Androids<Inperfect Cell(pre human absorbtions)<Present Androids
except future trunks was strong enough to defeat the androids, so cell was talking out of his a***. that was kind of the point, cell was arrogant, and it cost him.


@AvatarReiko that's the anime. it's not evidence of anything.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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